What the Bible Says about Women
in Leadership
Pastor Mark at Mars Hill Church in Seattle (WA) has coined a unique phrase when referring to women pastors: “ministers in skirts.” Considered controversial in some circles, Driscoll preaches that female Christians are called to serve in a myriad of ways around the church. However, says Driscoll, they should not occupy a preaching position in the pulpit.
The following excerpt from Got Questions.org also tackles this difficult issue of women pastors. The quote is full of Scriptural insights which affirm the position that Pastor Driscoll has taken.
So what do you think about "ministers in skirts?" Please tell us. Don’t be shy!
Quote from GotQuestions.org
Question: "Women pastors/preachers? What does the Bible say about women in ministry?"
Answer: There is perhaps no more hotly debated issue in the church today than the issue of women serving as pastors/preachers. As a result, it is very important to not see this issue as men versus women… This is not an issue of chauvinism or discrimination. It is an issue of biblical interpretation.
The Word of God proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11-12). In the church, God assigns different roles to men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created and the way in which sin entered the world (1 Timothy 2:13-14). God, through the apostle Paul, restricts women from serving in roles of teaching and/or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors over men, which definitely includes preaching to, teaching, and having spiritual authority.
There are many “objections” to this view of women in ministry. A common one is that Paul restricts women from teaching because in the first century, women were typically uneducated. However, 1 Timothy 2:11-14 nowhere mentions educational status. If education were a qualification for ministry, the majority of Jesus' disciples would not have been qualified.
A second common objection is that Paul only restricted the women of Ephesus from teaching (1 Timothy was written to Timothy, who was the pastor of the church in Ephesus) ... Read more
A third common objection is that Paul is only referring to husbands and wives, not men and women in general. The Greek words in the passage could refer to husbands and wives; however, the basic meaning of the words refers to men and women … Read more
Yet another frequent objection to this interpretation of women in ministry is in relation to women who held positions of leadership in the Bible, specifically Miriam, Deborah, and Huldah in the Old Testament … Read more
Elders/bishops/deacons are described as the “husband of one wife,” “a man whose children believe,” and “men worthy of respect.” Clearly the indication is that these qualifications refer to men.
Most significantly, though, the authority of women in the Old Testament is not relevant to the issue. The book of 1 Timothy and the other Pastoral Epistles present a new paradigm for the church—the body of Christ—and that paradigm involves the authority structure for the church, not for the nation of Israel or any other Old Testament entity.
Similar arguments are made using Priscilla and Phoebe in the New Testament. In Acts 18, Priscilla and Aquila are presented as faithful ministers for Christ ... Read more
In Romans 16:1, even if Phoebe is considered a “deaconess” instead of a “servant,” that does not indicate that Phoebe was a teacher in the church. “Able to teach” is given as a qualification for elders, but not deacons (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:6-9). Elders/bishops/deacons are described as the “husband of one wife,” “a man whose children believe,” and “men worthy of respect.” Clearly the indication is that these qualifications refer to men. In addition, in 1 Timothy 3:1-13 and Titus 1:6-9, masculine pronouns are used exclusively to refer to elders/bishops/deacons.
The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11-14 makes the “reason” perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with “for” and gives the “cause” of Paul’s statement in verses 11-12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because “Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived.” God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “helper” for Adam. This order of creation has universal application in the family (Ephesians 5:22-33) and the church … Read more
Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, evangelism, and helps. Much of the ministry of the local church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only from having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15).
God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers, or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3-5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This logically would preclude women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s plan and His gifting of them.
Related
• 5 Bible Study "Rock Stars" in the Spotlight
You’re invited to join Barbara at Stray Thoughts for her delightful “thinkful” meme, The Week in Words and Courtney's meme Women Living Well Wednesdays.
Winner: Marriage Monday Giveaway
I'm very pleased to announce that the winner of an audio CD called the "Crazy Cycle" from Love & Respect.com. Congratulations to Faith at Gold in the Clouds! I hope you and your husband benefit from the material as much as we have.
Photos: Mars Hill Church Seattle (Flickr) & Media Images
Up Next—New Book: The Hour that Matters Most
What you think about women pastors? 
16 Comments:
I agree with Driscoll, but I sure do love listening to Joyce Meyer. The men listening are going have to be held accountable for listening to her. I don't agree with her reasoning when she tries to say it is okay from Scripture for her to be a preacher either.
This is such a tricky issue to interpret correctly. Our church is about to study it (again), which is a good thing because we tend to err towards the other extreme, not allowing women to even do the things that scripture does specifically say are okay.
May the Lord provide wisdom and grace for all of us in this area!
I am of the same mind you are in this matter -- even with all of the other possible ways of looking at it, 1 Timothy 2:11-12 is pretty clear. I've been saddened to see some gifted women fixate on that one area of ministry and wail against it rather than seeking the myriad ways they CAN serve.
I consider someone like Joyce Meyer to be a teacher more than a preacher. And my own church (and pastor and elders) believe that women should not be preaching the sermon, but rather, can lead small groups, other important ministries. Just not the senior pastor position. I tend to agree with this based on the Scriptures. I think that we as women need to be really careful when it comes to leading men. Typically, in our church, we have women small group leaders( I am one) but we have women under us, not men. THere are male small groups run by male leaders. There are marriage small groups run by married couples. I think that is safest and wise. OH and WOW!! thank you for the gift...i don't remember signing up for that but awesome!! I'm sure Dave and I will get alot out of it!! thank you soooo much emom!!
I was for sure raised to THE LETTER in the way Driscoll believes. I realize a lot of people see this as a very important issue, and that is their right. I don't think I see it as a huge issue anymore. At present I can only say after being part of Christian communities in the last few years that don't exclude women from this role I am no longer confident in how I was raised. One of the groups is the Salvation Army and I was greatly blessed to be a part of their body for a couple years. I can't find fault in their passion and humility and their way of doing things.
I agree with Driscoll on some parts - I do not believe in women pastors - but women preachers/teachers is very hard for me - my preference is to under a male preacher/pastor - but my mum is a preacher so it's really hard for me to deny the call on her life. She is not a pastor over a church but she is part of a group of 'preachers' who travel from around a connection of churches to minister. I want to say I don't agree with women preachers but I see the call on my Mum's life and how God uses her so it's a bit confusing for me at times?????
I'm a complimentarian through and through--but I think Driscoll's phrase "ministers in skirts" is somewhat unfortunate.
First, the word "minister" implies that women are not supposed to minister--which is completely contrary to Scripture (and to Driscoll's teaching as well.)
Second, the word "skirts" seems rather outmoded for the progressive female pastor or preacher--who seems to me much more likely to be wearing slacks or even jeans and heels than a skirt.
And there I go doing what I almost always do to Driscoll--get all worked up over his mode of delivery, when in fact I don't disagree with his message at all. :-)
Sisters: If you left your email address with your comment, a personal response it on the way. Thanks for the terrific discussion!
Barbara: Yes, I so agree. Our submission to Scripture on this issue is for our benefit--and for the benefit of men too. Why waste time railing when there are so many other needs in the church?
Mac an Rothaich: I hear you!
The issue seems to be important in circles where the women are blessed with gifts of speaking and teaching. Naturally, they want to use those gifts appropriately in the church. (More hands-on domestically-inclined women seem to be more content to not fill an upfront leadership role.)
Scripture is clear that women can do everything except have teaching authority over men. Since apparently you have some doubts, I encourage you to study the Bible references in this post. Blessings! ღ
Shelley: Really?! Amazing. I wasn't aware that your Mum is a "preacher."
I my mind, it's not the title, but more a matter of whether she has authority over men. Does she teach/preach tooto males in her travels?
According to Scripture, women can certainly lead and teach other women (and children--including boys). For many women like your Mum, the calling/gifting to teach/preach is strong. However, our calling must be tempered (or boundaried) by the clear admonition not to "mother" men.
Fortunately, God's grace is sufficent for ALL of us when we err. ღ
E-mom you are very gracious :) My Mum preaches to both men and women in a 'connection' of congregations and she is under a leadership team of both men and women although the 'head' of the denomination is a man so I guess ultimately she is under his authority. it's hard isn't it ... I love my mum - she reaches people - but I have never gotten into deep discussion with her about this - I know she loves the Lord with all her heart and I guess He can speak to her and re-direct her if necessary. I do understand how other people will judge her and this comment - I struggle too - but all I know is that she is a wonderful person who has been so instrumental in my walk with the Lord and she really believes she has been called (and shes not a flaky woman or a dominant woman) she is often very nervous when it comes to preaching but she fully believes that this what the Lord would have her do.
PS - My personal conviction is to not preach/teach men but women only ;)
I haven't heard his whole message but can I add I find his catch phrase border line offensive to women even if his idea is Biblical?! We certainly don't need to get offensive men against women or vis-versa. Division male against female will in no way further the kingdom of God.
Sisters, for the sake of this discussion, I'd like to post a few of the responses I sent by email. I was a pleasure to exchange reflections back and forth with a few of you, but I won't reveal your private emails to me here.
Hi Lori,
You make an excellent point, "The men listening are going have to be held accountable for listening to her."
Apparently, Joyce Meyer is unfamiliar with the clear teaching on this issue in Scripture. I wonder, is she married? (I don't know much about her.) It would be interesting to know how she deals with the topic of submission in marriage.
Thanks for commening!
Lisa,
Now that's interesting... your church errs in the other direction? Sadly, our old church in the PNW (we were involved in for 15 years) leans in the opposite direction; women can do anything and everything, and they do.
Our new church in the Phoenix area has an excellent grasp of the truth. Only men can be elders and pastors, but women do SO many other things. We love it.
Amen. "May the Lord provide wisdom and grace for all of us in this area!"
Faith
It sure sounds like your church has an excellent grasp Scripture's teaching on this issue.
Bekachubed,
Love the way you resolved your dilemma over Driscoll's curious phrase!
I have to say, I find his dry humor refreshing. He uses words in ways that are poetic or metaphoric... he's often misunderstood because the straight meaning is obscured.
I've read a couple of his books, and both our kids attended Mars Hill church while in college. We visited MH with them a few times, and always left with our brains rattling. The guy is light years outside our middle-aged realm! I admit, we find we're more comforable in a more traditional setting.
That's very interesting to know, Lisa. Wow.
As empty nesters, we actually researched churches first, before picking the city/neighborhood to move to. We were weary of believing differently than our city, state, and church. We were so eager for God to move us on... and He did. We can't get over how happy we are to be in a more conservative state, city, and church... not to mention the great weather, and lower cost of living.
If you think you are called to stay where you are, then do. But if you think perhaps God might be nudging you to move on, then I'd consider the possibilities.
Very interesting, Lori!
If I were them, I'd position my husband behind me, on the platform. (To give the impression that she's under his authority.) Sounds funny to me that he'd be down below her with the rest of the congregation.
Don't mean to be critical of someone you respect. Just musing a bit. I don't follow Joyce Meyer, so you're helping me to get to know her.
Shelley: You are so respectful of your Mum and that's wonderful. It's probably best not to debate your postition with her. I'd let the Lord speak directly to her through Scripture, or bring an older woman into her life.
I wish that my mother had been a believer before she died... so you're blessed your Mum is tender toward the Lord.
In our walk of faith, there are "dogmas" like salvation, the Trinity, and the virgin birth that theologians say we all must agree on to call ourselves "orthodox" Christians.
And then there's "doctrine," the sorts of things that divide denominations e.g. modes of baptism, ordinances vs. communion, predestination vs. free will, and women's roles--to name a few.
Then there's "opinion" like should we have drums and contemporary music in church services, drinking, dancing etc.
This issue of women's roles is not critical to our salvation, and our destiny in eternity. Yet, sadly it does divide. I think we should study the Scriptures for ourselves, and then hold fast to the Truth. But we are never to do so without love uppermost in our thoughts.
I like to keep this famous phrase in mind:
Unity on the essentials, diversity on the nonessentials, and love over all.
AMEN my sweet friend - and I am so sorry to hear about your Mom x
Mac an Rothaich: LOL, I do agree that Driscoll's catch phrase could be indeed be offensive to women. YES, absolutely--despite the underlying truth.
Driscoll is a character, no doubt about it. He's so tender toward God, yet he's ALL BOY! Raised in a blue collar (Catholic) home, he freely admits he's preaching mostly to men. (See his book Confessions of a Reformission Rev.)
Our son, a member at Mars Hill Church, concurs. Driscoll focusses on men (he says the women will go where the men are) largely because Seattle is a very liberal unchurched city, and the men need to hear a strong dose of the Gospel, straight up.
Since we know this pastor, and his church, and understand his mission field, I don't take offense at the controversial things he says. I'm grateful that someone strong is willing to speak the truth to a very needy city.
Just a little background for you! (((Hugs))) e-Mom
I agree e-Mom - sometimes our surroundings demand an IN YOUR FACE preaching still - I actually much prefer that style as long as it is based on the Truth of the Word and not emotionalism.
Post a Comment