Q & A with a Friend of Chrysalis (Part 1)
Q. Hi, e-Mom! I thought this article, “Christianity: Dogma, Doctrine, & Opinion” was helpful. I have a friend who believes that Jesus is God's son, but denies His pre-extistence and the Trinity. What are some of your thoughts? (Assuming you have time to answer.)
A. Thanks for reading my blog! I’m truly honored.
Ah yes, the Trinity. Your friend’s questions CAN be answered. But the Trinity is a profound doctrine that must be accepted first by faith. Since the study of theology is “faith seeking understanding,” we can never lead someone to faith in Jesus Christ through the mind only.
The study of theology and Christian apologetics is for believers. Unbelievers must have their hearts convicted by the Spirit first (John 16:8-11). Fortunately, we can trust that the Father is always at work, drawing people to Himself (John 6:44).
As believers, we accept the words of Jesus in Matt 28:9. “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit…” Here, Jesus is saying that Christian baptism identifies a person as one who believes in the Father; in the Son whom the Father sent to die for our sins; and in the Holy Spirit whom the Son sent to dwell in our hearts.
It is true that the word “Trinity” does not appear in the Bible, but the Trinity is nevertheless a Bible belief, as we’ve just seen above. The word “incarnation” does not appear in the Bible either, but we use it as a one-word summary of our belief that Jesus was God in the flesh.
Someone has aptly said, “The New Testament is the Old Testament revealed; the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed.” God’s revelation of Himself through the Holy Scriptures is progressive; i.e. we don’t learn very much about the Son—the second person of the Trinity—until the NT.
Numerous prophecies in the OT point to NT Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah. Some scholars argue that God “walking” in the Garden before the Fall and the mysterious person in the fiery furnace in Daniel were pre-incarnational appearances of the Son. Also, at creation, the spoken Word is thought to be the Son as well. (See Gen 1 and John 1).
St. Patrick is believed to have used the shamrock as a way of illustrating the Trinity. He asked, “Is this one leaf or three? If one leaf, why are there three lobes of equal size? If three leaves, why is there just one stem? If you cannot explain so simple a mystery as the shamrock, how can you hop to understand one so profound as the Holy Trinity?” Even though this is an overly simplified way to explain the Trinity, some teachers find it helpful.
Accepting a doctrine like the Trinity by faith does not exclude reason, but it also means that we cannot always apply the same logic that we use in mathematics. Without the Trinity, the Christian doctrine of salvation by God’s grace cannot stand (Eph 2:4-9). Some religious groups that claim to believe in the God of the Bible, but they reject the Trinity. They have a mistaken understanding of salvation that is based on good works, rather than the atoning blood of Jesus Christ.
Therefore, belief in the Trinity is foundational to our faith; it is a vital tenent held by “orthodox” Christians. By definition then, it is a Church dogma, and unbelief in the Trinity is considered apostacy.
(By the way, I am in no way making a judgment on the spiritual condition of your friend's heart or her eternal destiny!)
If you’re interested, you can order a short pamphlet that I really like by Rose Publishing called “The Trinity.” This booklet adequately answers three questions:
1. What is the Trinity?
2. Answers to Misunderstandings
3. What Early Christians Said About the Trinity
Hugs, e-Mom
Related Article: Christianity: Dogma, Doctrine, & Opinion
Visit Courtney's Wednesday Blog Hop at Women Living Well, Angela's Women in the Word at Good Morning Girls, and Tiffini's Word Women Wednesday at The House of Belonging for sweet fellowship and inspiration.
Photos: cobalt123, (Flickr)
Up Next—Is Jesus Really Divine? Q & A with a Friend of Chrysalis (Part 2)
What else would be helpful to answer this reader's question?
A. Thanks for reading my blog! I’m truly honored.
Ah yes, the Trinity. Your friend’s questions CAN be answered. But the Trinity is a profound doctrine that must be accepted first by faith. Since the study of theology is “faith seeking understanding,” we can never lead someone to faith in Jesus Christ through the mind only.
The study of theology and Christian apologetics is for believers. Unbelievers must have their hearts convicted by the Spirit first (John 16:8-11). Fortunately, we can trust that the Father is always at work, drawing people to Himself (John 6:44).
As believers, we accept the words of Jesus in Matt 28:9. “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit…” Here, Jesus is saying that Christian baptism identifies a person as one who believes in the Father; in the Son whom the Father sent to die for our sins; and in the Holy Spirit whom the Son sent to dwell in our hearts.
It is true that the word “Trinity” does not appear in the Bible, but the Trinity is nevertheless a Bible belief, as we’ve just seen above. The word “incarnation” does not appear in the Bible either, but we use it as a one-word summary of our belief that Jesus was God in the flesh.
Someone has aptly said, “The New Testament is the Old Testament revealed; the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed.” God’s revelation of Himself through the Holy Scriptures is progressive; i.e. we don’t learn very much about the Son—the second person of the Trinity—until the NT.
Numerous prophecies in the OT point to NT Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah. Some scholars argue that God “walking” in the Garden before the Fall and the mysterious person in the fiery furnace in Daniel were pre-incarnational appearances of the Son. Also, at creation, the spoken Word is thought to be the Son as well. (See Gen 1 and John 1).
St. Patrick is believed to have used the shamrock as a way of illustrating the Trinity. He asked, “Is this one leaf or three? If one leaf, why are there three lobes of equal size? If three leaves, why is there just one stem? If you cannot explain so simple a mystery as the shamrock, how can you hop to understand one so profound as the Holy Trinity?” Even though this is an overly simplified way to explain the Trinity, some teachers find it helpful.Accepting a doctrine like the Trinity by faith does not exclude reason, but it also means that we cannot always apply the same logic that we use in mathematics. Without the Trinity, the Christian doctrine of salvation by God’s grace cannot stand (Eph 2:4-9). Some religious groups that claim to believe in the God of the Bible, but they reject the Trinity. They have a mistaken understanding of salvation that is based on good works, rather than the atoning blood of Jesus Christ.
Therefore, belief in the Trinity is foundational to our faith; it is a vital tenent held by “orthodox” Christians. By definition then, it is a Church dogma, and unbelief in the Trinity is considered apostacy.
(By the way, I am in no way making a judgment on the spiritual condition of your friend's heart or her eternal destiny!)
If you’re interested, you can order a short pamphlet that I really like by Rose Publishing called “The Trinity.” This booklet adequately answers three questions:
1. What is the Trinity?
2. Answers to Misunderstandings
3. What Early Christians Said About the Trinity
Hugs, e-Mom
Related Article: Christianity: Dogma, Doctrine, & Opinion
Visit Courtney's Wednesday Blog Hop at Women Living Well, Angela's Women in the Word at Good Morning Girls, and Tiffini's Word Women Wednesday at The House of Belonging for sweet fellowship and inspiration.
Photos: cobalt123, (Flickr)
Up Next—Is Jesus Really Divine? Q & A with a Friend of Chrysalis (Part 2)
What else would be helpful to answer this reader's question? 
10 Comments:
A very smart way to answer this question...My little teacher heart applauds you. The simplifying of a complex issue...I think that's why good ole St. Pat used it! Good morning ))hugs(( to you!!
I have family that are Christians, but firmly deny the existence of the Trinity. So I have spent quite a bit of time thinking about it.
There are several instances throughout the Bible that seem to me to point towards the Trinity. But the one I love the most is the beginning of John (paraphrasing here)...In the begininning was the Word & the Word was with God & the Word was God & the Word became flesh. It doesn't get much plainer than that.
Thanks again, e-Mom, for making us think. Blessings to you this Wednesday!
Via Facebook, Amie said...
"How can any Christian question the existence of the Holy Trinity And still call themselves Christians?! Learning that is like Bible 101. God, Jesus & the Holy sprirt"
Very nice job of simplifying a hard-to-understand concept.
Another manifestation of the Trinity in Scripture is when Jesus was baptized. The Father in heaven spoke aloud and the Spirit descended like a dove upon Christ.
Something that helps prove the deity of the Holy Spirit is Acts 5:3-4, where Peter replies to Ananias, who has tried to deceive the church: "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God."
I agree with Alicia that John 1 has several things to indicate the pre-existence of Christ. Verses 1-3 say, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
In John 8:58, "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am," referring back to when God identified Himself to Moses as "I AM." Jesus not only identified Himself with that name, but he claimed existence before Abraham, and even the name "I AM" evidences eternality.
Colossians 1:16 is in the midde of a section about Jesus Christ and says of Him, "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him."
I hope your reader's friend takes time to study some of these passages with an open heart and mind.
Bobbi: Thanks my smarty pants friend! Good morning and ))Hugs(( back to you!
Alicia: That's a beautiful example from Scripture. It can't be more plain, can it?
I'm sorry your family members struggle with this doctrine. :~(
Amie: Thanks for sharing your thoughts. ღ
Barbara H.: You've give a wonderful well-thought out answer. Thanks so much for taking the time.
Why don't you copy your remarks and post them at Stray Thoughts? Others should hear what you have to say about the Trinity. (Maybe for St. Paddy's day?)
Blessings! ღ
Great answer to the difficult topic! I have a book for children that explains it very well via the apple example...similar to the shamrock. Makes it soooo simple! And yes..it is hard to wrap our brains around a person calling them selves "Christian" and yet struggle with the trinity but then again so many people call themselves Christian and yet really are not. Even those of us who have been walking with Christ for years, have a hard time wrapping our brains around some of these more difficult topics! thanks for always having informative stuff on here!!
I had this asked of me from a friend of my son last year....because I had always known about the trinity I was the first time for me to research it. Thanks for explaining.
Hi e-mom, if I could add something here, I'd like to go back to the creation time. Genesis 1:2, 26, 27 says,
2 "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters"
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image...
27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
Gen 1:2 mentions about the Spirit of God
If we have noted the change of pronoun in verses 26 and 27, Let US make man...HE created mankind HIS image... which explains that God is not a solitary deity.
May God bless us all.
Faith: Thanks for stopping by. I'd love to hear your "apple example."
I've also heard the Trinity explained using the three phases of matter... liquid (Father) solid (Son) and gas (Spirit). One God, three persons. It's easy to see the Spirit and the Father in both the OT and New Testaments. People have a harder time understanding the importance of Jesus, the Son. Of course, He's what distinguishes Christianity from Judaism. He's King of kings, and Lord of lords! Check out my next post...
Janette: I'm sure you did a very fine job of explaining the Trinity to your son's friend.
Jemina: Excellent verses. Yes, there's definitely a plural there. Also, in the Hebrew, the word "Elohim" is plural.
It's interesting that the Israelites were surrounded by pagans who worshipped a multiplicity of gods. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was forever reminding him that he was One. (e.g. See the Shema.) Monotheism was hard for them to grasp, whereas the concept of a Trinity is hard for us to understand.
Thanks for commenting!
Via email, Faith said...
i'll have to dig out the "Apple" book and share it on the blog...not sure which daughter's book bin it ended up in...I Won't Forget though..just might take me a few days...this is a busier week than usual for us.....
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